about ATIS Documents graphic newsroom graphic events graphic members graphic TOPS Graphic committees graphic
 

Accredited Standards Committee (ASC) O5 Meeting Minutes
MARCH 16-17, 2000
FT. COLLINS, COLORADO
HOSTED BY EDM INTERNATIONAL, INC.

 

1. Call to Order/Welcome/Chairman's Remarks

Chairman Ron Wolfe, USDA - Forest Products Labs, called the meeting to order at 8:10 a.m. He thanked Ms. Lisa Nelson and EDM International for setting up the arrangements and for hosting this meeting.

2. Approval of the Minutes of 1999 ASC O5 Meeting: April 1999

Chairman Wolfe asked Mr. Steve Barclay, O5 Secretary, if any comments were received, and he advised that Mr. Gouri Bhuyan proposed the following changes:
  • Section 6.1, first paragraph, remove the words "which began last month" from the last sentence.
  • Section 6.1, third paragraph, remove the words "; and a methodology for investigating mechanical coordination" from the last sentence.

Chairman Wolfe proposed the following change:
  • Section 8.2, second paragraph, last sentence, replace the words "use current slope data" with "use current taper data".

There was a motion to approve the minutes with the proposed modifications, which was seconded. The minutes were approved as modified.

3. Approval of Agenda

Chairman Wolfe asked if there were any proposed modifications to the agenda, and there were none. There was a motion to approve the agenda, which was seconded. The agenda was approved as distributed at the meeting.

4. Report on Funding Status of ASC O5

Mr. Steve Barclay, O5 Secretary, reported on the status of the 1999 funding of ASC O5. He reported that $8,624 was raised from contributions, and that the proposed 1999 budget was $10,900, with only $6,988 spent. He reported that due to the carryover of the 1998 deficit (largely due to the ANSI audit of ASC O5), that $13,364 will need to be raised in 2000, of which $9,900 is the proposed 2000 budget and $3,464 is the 1999 deficit. He advised that contributions will be sought from members, and that those who contributed the larger amounts in 1999 will be asked to contribute the same, if not more, for 2000.

5. Secretary's Report

Mr. Barclay asked the members to sign in on the membership roster, and asked the members to confirm their contact information and provide an e-mail address, if not already listed (see Attachment I). He reported (see Attachment II) that the Default of Letter Ballot O5/LB97-01 on the "Consideration of Foreign Species into ANSI O5.1 Revision" was approved, with all negative votes withdrawn, and will either be incorporated into the revision of ANSI O5.1, which is pending approval, or could become a supplement. He also reported that the soft conversion to revise ANSI O5.1-1992 was letter balloted as O5/LB99-02, and that a late negative vote was received and needs to be addressed, with the initial comments received being editorial in nature. A two-year extension for ANSI O5.1 was requested and obtained through January 2002, though work on this standard should still be completed as soon as possible. Mr. Barclay noted that the O5 web site is still available by going to http://www.atis.org/atis/o5/o5hom.htm, and introduced Mr. Jim Crandall, ATIS Director - Industry Forums.

Mr. Crandall reported on changes at ATIS, including changes in leadership, with the retirement of Mr. George Edwards, ATIS President, and with Ms. Susan Miller named as the new ATIS President. He noted that ATIS is changing the way it is perceived in the industry and becoming more proactive. He thanked Mr. Steve Barclay for his support of and advice to ASC O5. He noted the speech by ATIS Board Chairman, Mick McCue, which was distributed to the membership. He reiterated that ATIS is the legal entity that supports O5 and that ANSI accredits O5, and that the publication agreement between ATIS and ANSI has changed, with ATIS now being the publisher of O5 standards, which does not affect the O5 accreditation by ANSI. Mr. Crandall reported on the O5 homepage and the new ATIS Document Center, where the ANSI O5 standards may be obtained, and demonstrated the process of obtaining the standards. He reported that he foresees an increase in the visibility of ASC O5, including internationally, as well as an increase in the marketing and sale of O5 documents.

A question was asked regarding the publication status of ANSI O5.1, and Mr. Barclay reiterated that a two-year extension was granted and that a late negative vote on O5/LB99-02 was received and needs to be addressed. The possibility of publishing the Foreign Species document as a supplement was discussed. Mr. Bob Peters, IEEE, noted that Mr. Bob Kluge, IEEE, submitted the negative vote because the fiber stress numbers in the O5.1 tables need to be evaluated. Mr. Nelson Bingel noted that if O5.1 were to be changed, it would need to be approved by O5 and submitted to the October 2000 meeting of the NESC for inclusion in their new release. Mr. Peters noted that he has already submitted numbers to the NESC, which may be approved unless O5 approved changes in ANSI O5.1 fiber stresses, noting the intention is that O5 be the primary source for wood pole fiber stress values.

A question on tolerance for pole drilling was raised regarding who would be able to address this subject. Chairman Wolfe noted that this could be addressed by the Material Requirements Subcommittee, but it was noted that the utilities may be best to address this subject, as they write the specifications on the mechanics for the wood poles. Chairman Wolfe asked if the committee thought that pole drilling should be discussed in ASC O5, and there was unanimous disapproval of working on this in ASC O5.

Chairman Wolfe noted that the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) has no problem with handing out their test data, which he currently has in Lotus format, and that the data could be placed on the O5 web site. Further, he noted that data could be added which is developed by ASC O5 to help maintain its own information. He asked if a task group or subcommittee should be created to look at the pole data which was generated from Colorado State. Mr. Kluge made a motion to make the pole database information publicly available, which was seconded. The motion was approved with one negative. Chairman Wolfe advised that assistance from ATIS General Counsel may be needed prior to posting the information on the web site. Mr. Bodig noted that where the information came from is not known and that there is no procedure to determine what the selection criteria for the database was, and it was noted that the proposed Fiber Stress Task Force could address this. Mr. Bodig noted that if the fiber stresses were updated in O5.1, a footnote could be added to refer to the pole database as one source for obtaining the fiber stresses, and Chairman Wolfe added that he would like to have additional input to the database and have it stored in a central location (on the web site). He also noted that this should be addressed by the Fiber Stress Subcommittee in the afternoon of March 16.

6. Overview of Discussion Topics

6.A. Derivation of Nominal Resistance Value for Pole Bending Strength

Mr. Nelson Bingel reported that there are three potential outcomes for the committee effort to derive nominal resistance: 1) do nothing - keep the current fiber stress values listed in table 1 as the basis for pole design; 2) Derive nominal resistance values for reference by the NESC independent of the size class derivation - this will leave Table 1 in ANSI O5.1 and all the dimension tables the same, but tip load will no longer be a valid representation of pole design capacity; and 3) prepare a table of design fiber stress values and use these to modify tip loads or class size or both.

He sought a minimum number of items to be resolved in the Fiber Stress meeting. These included determination of the basis for strength evaluations and the controversies over size effect and moisture content adjustment.

These issues will be discussed in the Fiber Stress Subcommittee meeting the afternoon of March 16.

6.B Kiln Drying of Poles

Dr. Y.H. Chui, University of New Brunswick, provided an overview of red pine exceptions for high temperature drying, noting that ANSI O5.1 does not currently allow red pine to be kiln-dried above 170°, and wants to determine if there is an effect on bending by drying at higher temperatures. He noted testing of red pine with similar characteristics - 2 samples of 60 - and both were treated with CCS; one group at 170° for 9 days and the other group at 220° for 4 days. He noted that there was practically no difference in strength between the two samples.

Mr. Scott Kirk reported on tests of red pine kiln dried at low temperatures vs. high temperatures. He pointed out that four out of eight species currently fall under the exception in ANSI O5.1 (section 5.1.2.3) and may use high temperature kiln drying. He noted that the fiber stress strengths of red pine were similar to those in 5.1.2.3, and was seeking O5 approval to include red pine in the exception.

6.C Foreign Species - Radiata Pine from Chile

Chairman Wolfe reported that Chile was seeking consideration of radiata pine into the ANSI O5.1 standard, pointing out that this should not create additional competition with the U.S. market. The plantation-grown radiata pine had five rings per inch, but average to high specific gravity due to a high proportion of late wood. The strength was above the average expected, with a coefficient of variation (COV) of 8%. These poles are primarily of a distribution size, generally less than 60 feet in length. Chairman Wolfe asked that this be discussed in the Foreign Species task group and that some type of standard reporting format be created for submission by those requesting inclusion of foreign species into ANSI O5.1. Mr. Bhuyan noted that BCHydro has some information on radiata pine. Chairman Wolfe noted the capability of having international recognition of O5 standards and asked for people to volunteer to review the data, and Mr. Lonning noted that the review committee must be comprised of one person from the General Interest, Consumer, and Producer interest categories.

6.D Crossarms - Revision to ANSI O5.3

Mr. Larry Slavin, Telcordia Technologies, reported on the January 1998 ice storm which generated minimal winds but extremely large ice deposits and a high incidence of broken poles, noting that crossarm construction was part of the problem. He reported that support struts will buckle, crossarms may break and the poles may break, depending on the ice radius and span length, and that the O5 standard on crossarms may need to be examined.

Chairman Wolfe announced that Mr. Scott Shields could not attend this meeting, the Crossarms/Glulam Subcommittee will not be meeting, and there was no objection. It was agreed that the Fiber Stress Subcommittee meeting was the most critical, and that efforts needed to be expended to get the fiber stress issues resolved. It was resolved to have the Fiber Stress Subcommittee meeting through the rest of the day, March 16, 2000, and deal with the other issues in the other subcommittees later today or the morning of March 17.

There was a motion to adjourn to the subcommittee meeting, which was seconded. The meeting adjourned at 10:55 a.m.

7. Subcommittee Meetings
    The subcommittee meetings began at 11:00 a.m. on March 16, 2000.

8. Wrap-up of Subcommittee Meetings

The Fiber Stress Subcommittee met until 6:45 p.m., March 16, 2000, and the Material Requirements and Foreign Species subcommittees commenced at 7:30 a.m. on March 17, 2000.

The Committee O5 meeting was reconvened on March 17, 2000 at 9:07 a.m.

9. Subcommittee Reports and Recommendations

9.A Fiber Stress Subcommittee

Mr. Bob Kluge asked Mr. Nelson Bingel to report on the March 16, 2000, Fiber Stress Subcommittee meeting, and Mr. Bingel presented the general decisions reached during the meeting:

      1. No changes to be made to existing dimension tables.
      2. Class loads will no longer apply to transmission class poles.
      3. A stepped line will differentiate between distribution and transmission poles.
      4. Derive design fiber stresses for transmission poles using an exponential function to account for size effect on the 5% lower exclusion stress value.
      5. Derive design fiber stresses for distribution poles as the 5% lower exclusion value determined from strengths of all poles in the distribution class sizes.
      6. Strength adjustments include: class size adjustment of 1.1; conditioning factors - southern pine adjusted with a value of 0.9 with a footnote for a 0.85 adjustment if steam conditioned; douglas fir adjusted with a value of 0.9; western red cedar adjusted with a value of 1.0 with a footnote for a 0.9 adjustment if kiln dried; make adjustments to mean data, not a 5% lower exclusion limit (LEL); and create a calibration factor for adjustments.
      7. 7. A moisture adjustment of 1.1 will be applied for transmission sized poles only, with a footnote to caution that this should be removed when poles are used in wet areas.
      8. 8. Height adjustment will be assumed to be taken care of by the MORGL adjustment.
      9. Move the existing Table 1 in ANSI O5.1 to Annex B for historical purposes.
      10. Create a new Table 1 to include the exponential equation parameters for transmission poles (Douglas fir, Southern pine, and Western Red Cedar) and 5% LEL values for distribution class poles.
      11. Create a new table for Alaska Yellow Cedar and Western Hemlock. Remove transmission (H-class) sizes.
      12. Create a new table for Ponderosa pine which includes only distribution class sizes.
      13. Modify Annex C to remove unnecessary data.
Mr. Joe Bodig pointed out that this approach eliminates species interchangeability in transmission poles as the fiber stress values are no longer being used to set pole class sizes. Committee O5 acknowledged that this was a trade off with which they were willing to live.

Discussion on the height factor and moisture factor ensued. O5 decided that the adjustment for moisture should not be universally applied but noted as an option for dry areas. There was also some discussion of the calibration to current practice. Basically, this adjustment will be based on the assumption that a class 2-60' Cedar pole gives satisfactory performance at the current design level. So a calibration will be derived to assure that this pole will continue to be used at its present design level. This same calibration will be applied to all poles in order to maintain equal reliability with no minimal impact on current markets.

Mr. Kluge noted that the comments to the NESC on the change proposals must be submitted by May 1, 2000; and by October 1, 2000, the NESC will vote on the change proposals. Mr. Peters advised that the letter ballot for ANSI O5.1 must be approved prior to the October 2000 NESC meeting. Mr. Kluge motioned to charge the Fiber Stress Subcommittee to draft a ballotable change proposal based on the information in the preceding paragraphs, and have the letter ballot ready to be issued to O5 by June 1, 2000, which was seconded. It was noted that a preliminary draft for discussion should be distributed to O5 by May 1, 2000, so that a preliminary review may be done and comments may be addressed prior to letter ballot. The motion was unanimously approved. Mr. Barclay agreed to work with Chairman Wolfe and Mr. Bingel on revising O5.1 for letter ballot, and Mr. Bingel agreed to revise the document as noted. He also advised that the O5 e-mail list would be the most efficient tool for the preliminary review and discussion of the document, with the file posted on the O5 web site, and these tools should be utilized. He encouraged those who have not provided an e-mail address to do so.

9.B Material Requirements/Structural Composite Lumber Subcommittee

Mr. Colin McCown reported on the Photographic Manual of Wood Pole Characteristics and noted the possibility of providing this in hard copy as well as CD ROM format, adding that he now has enough pictures to proceed. He noted that the Shape and Shake task forces are continuing their work and noted possible work on crushing and shelling.

Mr. McCown reported that currently, red pine is limited to kiln drying up to 170°, and Dr. Chui provided information and data which indicates that there is virtually no strength loss above 170°. He proposed to include red pine as an exception to section 5.1.2.3 on kiln drying, and motioned to include this in the O5.1 letter ballot, which was seconded and unanimously approved.

9.C Foreign Species Subcommittee

Mr. Les Lonning reported on the approval of the Foreign Species document, and advised that two species (radiata pine and pinus sylvestrus) would be seeking approval. He noted that O5 should put together a checklist to supply to the proponents of the species so that when they submit the information package, all information is included and is in order. The idea is to limit the amount of time required in the review process. Chairman Wolfe will establish the first three-person review committee (Mr. Kluge volunteered (Consumer), Mr. Lonning (Producer) and Chairman Wolfe (General Interest)).

9.D Deep Incising Task Force

Mr. Chuck Stoddard reported that only twelve papers were found on the strength effects of deep incising, and only two provided tests for strength, and one was extensive, but the poles were not broken in accordance with ASTM standards. The other was a Bonneyville Power paper, and those were broken in accordance with ASTM standards, but they were broken after throughboring the length of the pole, which was not part of the charge of the task force. He advised that they will try working with the two papers and will provide a report back to the committee.

10. Old Business

Chairman Wolfe noted the database with the EPRI test data and the possibility of posting the information on the O5 web site, and will work with Mr. Barclay and ATIS to ensure there would be no legal issues.

11. New Business

Mr. Barclay reported on the 1999 contributions from ASC O5 members towards the 1999 budget, noting that RUS, SPTA, WRCPA, and WWPI provided the largest contributions (over $1,000), with contributions also from Brooks Manufacturing, Commercial Inspection Co's, EEI, EDM, RCP Engineering, Southern California Edison, SPIB, and WAPA.

Mr. Kluge motioned to nominate Mr. Nelson Bingel as the chairman of the Fiber Stress Subcommittee, which was seconded. The motion was unanimously approved. Mr. Bob Peters thanked Mr. Kluge for the work he had done as chairman of the Fiber Stress Subcommittee and also thanked the committee for their participation and support over the years.

Mr. Kluge noted that hollow wood fiber poles (made of composite wood fibers) should be monitored for if and when it may be appropriate to develop a standard in this area.

12. Next Meeting - April 2001 O5 Annual Meeting - Madison, WI, at FPL

The 2001 Committee O5 annual meeting has been scheduled for April 2001, in Madison, Wisconsin, at the USDA Forest Products Labs. The meeting was scheduled from April 12-13, 2001, assuming no conflicts and no holidays fall on these dates.

13. Adjournment

There was a motion to adjourn, which was seconded. The meeting was adjourned at 10:02 a.m.

Steve Barclay

O5 Secretary (ATIS)

Attachments:

Attachment I - Attendance Listing for the March 16-17, 2000, O5 meeting
Attachment II - O5 Secretary's Report (S. Barclay)

MARCH 16-17, 2000
COMMITTEE O5 MEETING
ATTENDANCE LIST

 
Baileys, Randy			Western Wood Preservers Institute
Bhuyan, Gouri			Canadian Electricity Association
Bingel, Nelson			IEEE
Bodig, Jozsef			Engineering Data Management
Brown, Todd				Rocky Mountain Pole & Treating Assoc.
Comerford, Jim			Western Red Cedar Pole Association
D=Hooge, Dave			Edison Elect. Inst/Elect. Light & Power
Kirk, Scott				Western Red Cedar Pole Association
Kluge, Robert			IEEE
Kudick, Andrew			Intec Services
Lonning, Les			American Wood Preservers Association
McCown, Colin			Southern Pressure Treaters Association
Patterson, Robert		American Wood Preservers Association
Peralta, Arthur			Southern California Edison
Peters, Robert			IEEE
Slavin, Larry			Telcordia Technologies
Stoddard, Chuck			American Wood Preservers Association
Thames, J.W. (delegate) Commercial Inspection Co=s
Wheat, Joseph			Southern Pressure Treaters Association
Wolfe, Ron (CHAIRMAN)	U.S. Department of Agriculture - FPL
Yeh, Borjen				APA - The Engineered Wood Association

GUESTS

Barclay, Steve			ATIS, O5 Manager/Secretary
Chui, Y.H. 				University of New Brunswick
Crandall, Jim			ATIS, O5 Director
Frohlich, Craig			Guelph Utility Pole Co.
Hayward, Dennis			Western Wood Preservers Institute
Nelson, Rob				EDM International
Plank, Mark				Pacific Gas & Electric
Pugh, David				OtterTail Power Co.
Rollins, Martin			H.M. Rollins Co. Inc.
Stewart, Andrew			EDM International
Taras, André			Hydro Québec Research
Zolotoochin, Alexander	BCHydro